Ali: Mortgage rates had shot up to around 20%. I think I have PTSD from some of that, from back in the day.

Host: We do too, actually. Was there any time when park rents went down?

Ali: I don't recall parks ever going down. We went from trailer trash to the darling asset class.

Host: I love that. I feel like we just keep getting prettier too.

Host: Ali is joining us today. Welcome to the Cashflow Quest podcast. We're excited to have a manufactured housing veteran with us — a guy who runs panels and has a ton of fun in the industry. We've known each other for a few years through our San Diego events. He's also an avid cigar connoisseur, so we're going to light one up right now.

Host: This is an uncorrelated asset — it's really nuanced. You have to understand how to operate mobile home parks. I'm excited to pull back the layers with you on your operational background. You've raised a fund, maybe several. Most of our listeners are clients and we do this to share intel from the manufactured housing space. We like Arizona; it looks like you prefer California. Share your story — how did you get into the space, why do you like it, and what are you doing now?

Ali: I'll say upfront that I can be politically incorrect at times, so we'll just have to run with it. I'm eighth generation in commercial real estate — and not because I've been reincarnated eight times. Going back to the bartering days in India, my family has been in what I'd consider the first form of income property. We weren't farmers. We didn't have any product or service other than land. We provided that land for farmers and merchants to bring their goods and essentially barter — what you might consider the first bazaar or flea market in modern terms. That was our income. That's how we got our rice and grains. Since then, the mindset has always been about land as an asset: land banking, and generating income while you hold it.

Ali: At the very bottom layer, that's the premise of the business we're all in. Fast forward to July 1981 — just before that, in the late seventies, similar to what we're going through today, we were dealing with the Iran oil crisis. I remember as a kid, my father only being able to get gas every other day based on your license plate number in California. Mortgage rates had shot up to 18–21%, which sounds absolutely crazy, but it happened.

Ali: At that time, we had about 120 single-family homes in the portfolio in Orange County, built up through the late seventies. By around 1980, all of that blew up. Those 120 homes — which I imagine would be worth at least $1.5 million each today — collapsed like a house of cards. Nobody could get a loan. Nobody could pay rent. Nobody could refinance. My father was trapped, and it forced a quick liquidation. We went from 120 homes down to about 30 he was able to salvage. From that, he saved enough for a down payment on his first community.

Ali: On July 9th, 1981, I became KOA Joe. That was my name through middle school and part of high school. The previous owner's name was Joe, and when we took over I just declared: forget my confusing name, just call me Joe. And it stuck. What we learned from that RV park early on was that it was seasonal — fat in the summer, lean in the winter. That wasn't a good experience.

Ali: We discovered that bringing in permanent residents — seniors, construction crews, others already open to living in smaller spaces — gave us recurring income month after month. That's when we decided we didn't want to be in a seasonal hospitality business. We wanted stable, reliable income from the most affordable housing solution out there. So we migrated from the RV park model to the mobile home park model and never looked back as a family. That was 1981. Today, we've touched thousands of units, mostly as a family office, all in California.

Ali: The journey has been incredible because we built this before agency financing existed, before there were many lenders, brokers, or appraisers — before manufactured housing was a truly recognized asset class. I like to say we went from trailer trash to the darling asset class. And now everybody wants to be in this space, which is wonderful. At Rise 360 Ventures, our philosophy is an abundance mindset — we're not afraid of competition. There are so many ways to succeed in this business, so many different profit centers and strategies.

Host: We look up to you because we started in the 2009 era, as the country was rebuilding from the GFC. Is there anything from your history — a lesson learned — that you use every day when looking at deals? You've seen ELS, Sun, and the big companies build their portfolios. You have an advantage point I didn't have.

Ali: Great question. Generally speaking, down cycles and economic downturns — while painful for consumers — have consistently been great opportunities for investors who are prepared and able to act. As a consumer, it's frustrating when your latte goes from $5 to $10, and I may be paying $17 soon here in California. But the reality is, in our asset class, every down cycle has been a buying opportunity.

Ali: We've seen several cycles — the early 80s, the savings and loan crisis, the dot-com bust, 2008, and COVID in 2020. Across all of them, when lending tightens, it opens the door for creative deal structures. Because life goes on — death, divorce, and other circumstances still happen, and people need to sell regardless of financing conditions. When the herd is sidelined, those willing to be creative and strike the right balance between price, terms, and structure earn the greatest reward. I've grown up embracing distressed opportunities and leaning in during those times.

Host: Did park rents ever go down — say, through the savings and loan crisis?

Ali: I don't recall parks ever going down. When the economy takes a hit and people come down a notch in their lifestyle, we're the last stop for someone who still wants the American dream — to own a home, have no shared walls, have a backyard, maybe a larger pet. We're the least expensive, most affordable option. So we actually saw an uptick in demand during every down cycle. We were never bearish in those markets. We stayed aggressive.

Host: That's good to hear. We've been testing the theory in real time — some of our largest percentage rent increases ever, because we bought deals at significant discounts to market rents. It's great to know it's always been time-tested.

Ali: When people ask me when the best time to buy is, my answer is the same as when the best time to plant a tree is. Ten years ago. The second best time is now. Regardless of interest rates or market conditions, we've seen this proven over and over.

Host: What are your hot markets right now? What's your buy box?

Ali: In general terms: secondary or just-below-secondary markets, $3M to $25M — that range used to go up to $50M, but as more private equity groups have entered, we've tightened it. We aim to be above Main Street and below the big institutional players. Within that range, we really excel at $3M to $15M. At least 100 units — I'd say 50 minimum for someone just starting. Two- to three-star communities with a value-add opportunity, typically infill. We've built out our vertical to do infill well since the 80s — separate arms for buying homes wholesale, selling retail, and financing. Asset management is separate from real property ownership.

Ali: Specifically for my organization: California has been our farm since the eighties. When you have that kind of Rolodex — relationships with families who have owned these parks before they were even parks, back when they were farmland — you can still find opportunities in California despite the turbulence, rent control, and other challenges. My Rolodex serves us well. Most Californians aren't investing in California anymore, and most out-of-state investors don't want to come in. My mindset is that just leaves more opportunity for the few of us who are here and understand the landscape.

Host: A lot of our investors are anti-California. How do you view the big risks — rent control, lawsuit exposure, and insurance costs?

Ali: Those are real, real-time concerns. We're seeing more and more requirements from insurance carriers and lenders in terms of audits and improvements. It's getting tougher and it's nothing to dismiss quickly. California is not for everybody — it takes experience and the right Rolodex. That said, everything is arithmetic. You can't discount the fifth-largest economy in the world. The geography of this state lends itself to the kind of growth we've seen since it was formed — whether it's Hollywood, agriculture, or technology. You can't deny what works for California.

Ali: At the end of the day, you balance the massive demand for affordable housing — which the state has to reckon with — against rising costs, cap rates, and interest rates. In simple terms, it's still very profitable and compelling. It's just that the government, lenders, and insurance companies all want a bigger piece of your pie now. But it's still compelling.

Ali: For Rise 360 Ventures, we just bought our first community in Weed, California — yes, that's a real city, near Mount Shasta. It's a small, unconventional asset. We did something that may be unpopular with some industry elders: we're experimenting with a co-op model — a resident-owned lot structure where we not only fill the community and sell the homes, but ultimately sell the community to the residents via a cooperative structure. It's an experiment, and it's not certain we'll execute it, but I'm being transparent about what we're exploring.

Host: Why would you do that — is the idea to sell each unit for more?

Ali: Partly. I've seen it done in San Diego where parceled lots bought at $100–$150K were later sold for $250K. But more importantly — if communities are eventually going to funnel up to large institutional players anyway, I have no hesitation letting at least a few go to the small resident who deserves a win. Especially if I can sell it at a premium compared to a standard exit. If the family gets their win and I do better — that's a win-win. In markets like San Diego, where a home in my community sells for $500K simply because of location and low lot rents, there's real trapped equity worth recapturing through this strategy.

Ali: There's also a BTR-adjacent strategy worth considering, especially in markets like Oceanside and San Diego. As much as it goes against the manufactured housing ethos of avoiding landlord headaches, in those markets it may make sense to gradually acquire the homes and rent both the home and the land. It's not legal advice, but it's a real strategy for addressing rent control challenges. If you can get $3,000–$5,000 to rent a manufactured home, you buy at cost as a dealer, and turnover in mobile home parks is substantially lower than multifamily — it can work very well in high-demand coastal markets.

Ali: If you don't have these words in your vocabulary going into this economic environment, I'd suggest getting familiar with them now: seller financing, all-inclusive trust deeds, wraparounds, 99-year leases, master leases with triple-net structures. These creative structures mean more deals you can do without tying up all your capital or collateral. Whatever conventional debt you can take on, great — but understanding these tools multiplies your opportunity set significantly.

Ali: Our strategy has always been to buy distressed communities at 50–60% occupancy — not because of a lack of demand, but because of a lack of capital on the resident side. The upfront cost: installation, transportation, picking out a home under time pressure. If we can provide a three-bedroom, two-bath home already placed, with easy financing through our vertical, we can go from 50–60% to 90–100% occupancy relatively quickly. We may have been among the pioneers of that model back in the 80s. It still works today.

Host: Why did you pivot from the family office to launching a fund?

Ali: The family, after a long and hard journey, reached a point of comfort, security, and honestly — fatigue. They wanted autopilot and an eventual exit strategy. I respect that. But at 56, I'm not done. I still have a lot to offer this industry and I wanted to keep going. I'd had friends over the years — brothers of the leaf, cigar buddies — who wanted to invest alongside me, and I'd always turned them down. At some point I reconsidered. We built the legal infrastructure as a syndication and fund, and went from literally two people to a team of 20 in a very short period — really in the last six months for Rise 360 Ventures. We're building out marketing, accounting, technology, acquisitions strategy — all of it. We're very excited.

Host: We don't want to lose you, Ali. As Stephen Covey talked about in The Seven Habits — there's a wealth of knowledge we lose when experienced people step back. You can't replace someone who's been through multiple cycles.

Ali: I'm so fortunate. I get to take credit and be on the stage, but it really comes from eight generations of teachings and a father who is truly one in a billion — a serial entrepreneur who applied that mindset to this space. I got to be a sponge watching someone like him. Now I get to share it, and hopefully contribute something valuable.

Host: Do your kids want to join the business?

Ali: They're 16, 18, and 20 — they know better than mom and dad right now. But they're starting to appreciate the value of money and how difficult it is in society. I'm still optimistic. And beyond my own kids, a couple of my siblings are already in the industry. So we're going into our ninth generation. We have five siblings total, and some are already active. From San Diego to Mount Shasta — that's our farm. We've done the most work along the Highway 99 and I-5 corridors in the Central Valley, and we continue to focus there heavily.

Host: Next time you're in San Diego, we'd love to have you by the office. Maybe continue this conversation over cigars at Churchill's in Old Town.

Ali: I'd love that. Great restaurants and coffee shops nearby too. Most definitely.

Host: Thanks, Ali. We really appreciate you sharing your story and your wisdom today.

Ali: Thank you all very much — and thank you to the audience as well. Take care.